Andrea Mitchell: Good day, I'm Andrea Mitchell live in Washington. Welcome to MSNBC's Super Tuesday special coverage. Today we are going in depth on the politics of the war in Iraq, a reality check on what is happening on the ground and where the candidates stand. Here with us now retired U.S. General Wesley Clark. The General is an MSNBC analyst and a Barack Obama supporter after having supported Hillary Clinton during the primaries. General Clark, welcome. We want to talk to you about Iraq-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you very much, Andrea.
Andrea Mitchell: -and about foreign policy. First, we want to give you an opportunity to respond to a lot that's been said since Sunday when you went on Face The Nation and had the following exchange between yourself and Bob Schieffer. Let's watch:
(on tape)
Bob Schieffer: How can you say that John McCain is un- untested and untried? General?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Because in the matters of national security policy making, it's a matter of understanding risk. It's a matter of gauging your opponents, and it's a matter of being held accountable. John McCain's never done any of that in his official positions. I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He, he was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility. That large squadron in Air- in the Navy that he commanded, it wasn't a wartime squadron. He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. He hasn't seen what it's like when diplomats come in and say, 'I don't know whether we're going to be able to get this point through or not. Do you want to take the risk? What about your reputation? How do we handle it-'
Bon Schieffer: Well-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: ' -it publicly.' He hasn't made those calls, Bob.
Bob Schieffer: Well, well, General, maybe-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: So-
Bob Schieffer: Could I just interrupt you. If-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Sure.
Bob Schieffer: I have to say, Barack Obama has not had any of those experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down. I mean-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be President.
(end tape)
Andrea Mitchell: Now, of course, what people are focusing on is your final comment that riding in a fighter plane, getting shot down isn't a qualification to be President, but you also make the point that John McCain didn't have executive experience. This has caused, as you know, a ruckus. Barack Obama has not had executive experience either. So, why criticize John McCain for something that your own candidate can't, can't claim to.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, Andrea, thanks for giving me a chance to be on and talk about this issue, because these are comments I made some time ago in general about John McCain long before I had supported Barack Obama several months ago based on my own experience in 38 years in uniform. I was a company commander in Vietnam. I came home on a stretcher. I'd been hit by four rounds. I had a broken hand, a broken leg, was in three hospitals. And so, I know what war's like at the cutting edge. And then I was later the Commander, as you would recall, in Yugoslavia in the, in the Kosova campaign for NATO, and I helped win that battle for the United States and for NATO. And so, I, I've seen war at the tactical level. I've seen it at the strategic level. So, in this campaign, national security's going to be very, very important as an issue. John McCain has to be recognized as someone who served his country in uniform. He served with courage. He served with commitment, and I honor that service. And as I said on the show, he's one of my heroes, but the service that he had wasn't the same as having been in the White House or in the Pentagon or at a high level command and having actually had to wrestle with national policy and national strategic issues. And that's the point I'm making.
Andrea Mitchell: But as I say, neither has Barack Obama, and the political impact of this has been to take Barack Obama off-message on a day when he was giving a major speech on patriotism and in fact had to insert this following comment into his speech yesterday. Let's watch:
(on tape)
Barack Obama: For those like John McCain, who have endure physical torment in service to our country, no further proof of such sacrifice is necessary. Let me also add that no one should ever devalue that service, especially for the sake of a political campaign (applause) and that goes for supporters of both sides.
(and tape)
Andrea Mitchell: Now, he didn't mention you, General, but we have been told clearly he was referring to you. Doesn't that cause you some concern.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Oh, I've talked to the campaign about this.
Andrea Mitchell: Okay.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But Andrea, it wasn't my decision to bring this up on Sunday, and I haven't made the ruckus. But I think an important point in this is that-
Andrea Mitchell: But you answered it the way you answered it as we've shown.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I answered it the way Bob Schieffer asked it to me. I just answered a direct question. It was like, 'Is the sun shining?' I said, 'Yes, the sun is shining.' And I know that's not always done-
Andrea Mitchell: Well-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -in politics, but I answered a direct question. So, let me explain why I think this is an important issue and why I think it's important that our, our viewers understand that there's a distinction between having shown your courage and commitment as a soldier, sailor or airman in the United S- marine in the United States Armed Forces and having learned from that the judgement that will make you a better President. Because I think ultimately this is a question about who has the better judgement to be Commander in Chief. Barack Obama is not claiming any experience having been in the Armed Forces, but I think if you look at their record of what they've said on things like Iraq and what they've said on the war on terror and how they're approaching the use of all of America's powers, not only our military power, you would make a strong case with me that Barack Obama has shown the better judgement.
Andrea Mitchell: Well let me, let me point out what some of the critics from the Republican side have pointed out, that there seems to be an organized campaign and - whether or not you played into this - that also on Sunday a liberal blogger John Aravosis on americablog.com wrote, "Honestly, besides being tortured what did McCain do to excel in the military?" That was the title of the blog. Down in the blog, he said, "Getting shot down, tortured and then doing propaganda for the enemy is not command experience." Now, first of all, there's a factual issue there, because no one has proved to my satisfaction that John McCain ever did any propaganda for the enemy. To the contrary, he resisted all efforts to use him as a tool with his father being the Admiral in charge of the fleet and refusing to let himself be-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Mm hm.
Andrea Mitchell: -released and become, you know, a tool-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Yeah.
Andrea Mitchell: -of the North Vietnamese at the time.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I'd agree.
Andrea Mitchell: That said, there has been an argument.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: He was a very honorable prisoner of war.
Andrea Mitchell: And he was an extraordinary man, and he showed a great deal of courage and has had a career-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Absolutely.
Andrea Mitchell: -since he was a prisoner of war, which he can be judged on-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Right.
Andrea Mitchell: -his Senate career. But that-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Right.
Andrea Mitchell: -there's a whole issue of whether there is an organized campaign against John McCain's military service, which Barack Obama can stand above-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: No.
Andrea Mitchell: -and say, 'I honor his service.' Take a look at the-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Absolutely not.
Andrea Mitchell: MoveOn.org ad. The MoveOn.org ad with AFSCME, which has been airing quite widely. Let's play that:
(on tape)
Young woman: Hi, John McCain. (baby noise) This is Alex, and he's my first. So far his talents include trying any new food and chasing after our dog - that and making my heart pound every time I look at him. And so, John McCain, when you say you would stay in Iraq for 100 years, were you counting on Alex? Because (baby noise) if you were, you can't have him.
(and tape)
Andrea Mitchell: Now, I know that John McCain said that A-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, Andrea, that doesn't say anything about his military career. That has about- something to do about John's- McCain's judgement, and I think that's a very legitimate issue. But there- look, what I said had nothing to do with the Barack Obama campaign. I've been saying those things for months. I simply answered a direct question from the interviewer. And the clip you showed me is really about judgement, and I think that is a very important issue in this campaign.
Andrea Mitchell: Newsweek magazine online had suggested that you might be a Vice Presidential choice. You come from Arkansas. You were connected to the Clintons in- during the primary campaign. You have military service, foreign policy experience. Do you think that this whole episode helps or hurts the possibility of your being on the ca- on the ticket.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: (chuckles) First of all, I've heard nothing about this other than the rumors that fly in the press. I don't know anything about it, but really it, it's immaterial to me. What I was asked is my judgement based on my experience, and that's what I'm giving to the American people. And I've given it on several occasions on several different shows and, and in writing and, and other things about the relevance of particular military experiences to the office of President of the United States, and-
Andrea Mitchell: And le-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -that's the only issue that's important here.
Andrea Mitchell: Let me ask you about judgement. Barack Obama has said, 'Out in 16 months after taking over.' Some people have said, 'What about relying on the judgement of the Commanders in the field.' When you look at John McCain and you look at Barack Obama, do you think that either of them will have the flexibility to do what they claim they will do about withdrawing from Iraq? As a military man won't the conditions on the ground and politically in Iraq determine how rapidly the U.S. can safely withdraw?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, certainly Barack Obama is going to look at the conditions on the ground and the political conditions in Iraq, and he's going to do more than that. He's going to open a diplomatic dialog with Iraq's neighbors, including people we don't agree with, and he'll try to set up some sensible strategy for the region around which or through which the United States will extract its forces. I think he'll begin to withdraw immediately upon, soon within a month or so after taking the office next January. I certainly hope he will, because I believe that it's the fact of the American withdrawal that will trigger the real incentives to help the Iraqis come to the agreements they need to resolve those political differences.
Andrea Mitchell: Wesley Clark, thank you. I want to thank you also for sticking to your commitment to be with us today. We had originally talked about this interview last week. We were going to talk about Iraq. Other events intervened as we both know. And you kept your word, and I thank you for that.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Andrea, thank you for giving me an opportunity to say one more time to veterans and all those who are serving in uniform that I honor everyone who serves, especially John McCain, who has been a personal hero of mine. And I thank you for giving me the opportunity to say that again. Thank you.
Andrea Mitchell: You bet. Thanks for being with us.