General Wesley Clark on CNN's The Situation Room

July 1, 2008
Transcription by Melange

John Roberts: Wesley Clark is not backing down. The retired Army general reiterates something that has ignited a political firestorm. Clark says, while he respects John McCain's military service, that military service does not automatically qualify McCain to be Commander in Chief. General, thanks for being with us today. You ...you've been under a lot of fire since Sunday over some comments that you made talking with my former colleague Bob Schieffer on ...on Face the Nation. You were talking about John McCain's wartime experience and how you believe that that did not qualify him to be president on ...on its basic merits. Let's play that particular part of the interview where Bob Schieffer asked you a question about qualifications and you responded.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Alright.

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Bob Schieffer: I have to say, Barack Obama has not had any of those experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down. I mean ...

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be President.

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John Roberts: Now General, you were countering a point that Bob Schieffer had made uh,

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Exactly

John Roberts: David Axelrod uh, the chief strategist for the Obama campaign told us this morning quote the way it came out was unfortunate.” Senator Obama called it “inartful.” I'm wondering, do you regret the way that you said that?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well you know, um obviously I wish we hadn't had the big brouhaha about this because it has uh, it has taken away from the message of the man I'm supporting to be President of the United States and that's Barack Obama. I think he's got superior judgment but John, this is an important point. I've been making it for months – it had nothing to do with the Obama campaign. They didn't know I was going to make it ...I didn't know I was going to make it until he asked about it. Bob Schieffer asked me to come on and talk about foreign affairs and the first question out of his mouth was ‘Joe Lieberman says McCain is going to be a great president and what do you think about his military experience' or something, words to that effect. What I said is ‘I honor his service, he's one of my heroes, but having served as a fighter pilot, however great it is to show your character and courage, does not necessarily mean that you're the best qualified person in the race to be the president.

John Roberts: Right. I'm just wondering ...back to the original point. Do you regret the way that you phrased your answer to that particular question?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well you know, I think if you'd seen the whole question and the whole interview in context, I think there's no issue with this but I think it does show the ...what can happen when an excerpt is taken. And I noticed in some of the major news channels, and I don't want to point any fingers here, but they only showed my answer, as though I made that up. This is like someone says, ‘is the sun out,' you could say, ‘yes, the sun is out' or you could say ‘yes,' or you could say ‘the sky is blue' but I just happened to answer it exactly the way it was asked and ...

John Roberts: but

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: my point is that when we're about to select a President of the United States at a time of war - and national security's going to be a big issue in this campaign, the American people should look at the real qualifications. That includes John McCain's character and courage – I've never said anything dissing that; I would never diss the service of anyone who served in the United States Armed Forces, I did it for 38 years. I was a captain in Vietnam, I commanded an infantry company, I came home on a stretcher in a hospital with four bullet wounds in me, so you know I'm very sympathetic to John McCain – he's one of my heroes. But, I've been at the strategic level; I led America's armed forces in NATO during the fight in Kosovo; I know what kinds of decisions get made, what the trade-offs are. I was simply pointing out that John McCain, in his military service – honorable and wonderful though it was – he wasn't at that level, so his claim is a different kind of a claim and it goes under the category or question of this, John: Do those experiences give him the judgment to have better judgment with regard to national security than let's say, Barack Obama?

John Roberts: Now ...now ...

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: and I think the record is that he hasn't shown better judgment. He's shown some ...some worse judgment on several occasions.

John Roberts: I mean it's ...it's well known General, that you rose to the absolute upper echelons of the military in this country as Supreme Allied Commander for NATO, but when it comes to that same type of qualification, you were very robustly behind John Kerry's military experience ...

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Absolutely.

John Roberts: ...and your speech at the Democratic National Convention in 2004 where you talked about his experience of being there under mortar fire ...and let's listen to the way that you summed that up.

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GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: John Kerry's combination of physical courage and moral values is my definition of what we need as Americans in our Commander in Chief.

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John Roberts: So you said it's what we need in a Commander in Chief and I'm wondering, how different was John McCain's experience from John Kerry's?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well a lot, because John McCain basically served honorably and well in uniform. He did everything the country could have asked. What John Kerry did is John Kerry got out of the uniform. He took a judgment, a judgment I didn't agree with at the time, but he had the moral courage to stand up for himself and oppose the conflict in Vietnam and I think the ...

John Roberts: But where was the executive experience that you talked about?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: The executive experience wasn't the issue there because John Kerry wasn't claiming that he had some special executive experience on national security against George Bush. <crosstalk>

John Roberts: But he was running on his war record and using that to buttress his credentials on national security.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Sure, only in the sense of having been there and proved himself under fire. John McCain is welcome to do that. He's always done that, but in this case it's about judgment. Eight years ...or seven years into a war where we're actually having more difficulties in Afghanistan than we did three or four years ago so you could say it's going the wrong way there, in which we're going to have to make some bold strategic moves in Iraq or risk the real erosion of the United States armed forces, we need a thinking president. We need someone who understands all the elements of power and I believe we need a policy that starts with the idea that we're going to withdraw American forces from Iraq and we're going to do more in Afghanistan, not only militarily, but diplomatically. Now those are the ideas of Barack Obama. They're not John McCain's ideas. John has said we'll stay there for 100 years if necessary. I think if he says that, he doesn't understand. I don't ...I ...I know he's got great experience from being a fighter pilot, but I don't ...he doesn't understand what the culture is there and I want a Commander in Chief who's sensitive to that and makes the right kind of decisions for our men and women in combat and for the country.

John Roberts: General, the McCain campaign has got you squarely in the crosshairs. Today on a conference call, they ...they put out Orson Swindle who was a fellow prisoner of war in the Hanoi Hilton with John McCain; took specific aim at you. Here's what he said today.

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Orson Swindle: We all know that General Clark, as high ranking as he is, uh, his ...his record in ...in his last command I think was somewhat less than stellar. The point being, General Clark ought to be ashamed of himself talking about a fellow serviceman

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I ...

John Roberts: Would you like to take a minute to respond to that?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I do. John, thank you very much. First of all, I don't know Orson – I'm sure he's an outstanding man and did a great job in uniform. He doesn't know me either. But I did in my last command, as the head of the forces in NATO lead the forces in NATO in the fight to stop ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. We did win a war. We bombed for 78 days; we broke the will of a Serb dictator. We saved a million and a half Albanians. We did it without the loss of a single American soldier, sailor, marine or airman in combat. We did it with a combination of diplomacy and force and that region remains at peace today and Kosovo is now an independent country. Now, to me, I was placed in the crosshairs of a lot of different people in that conflict. I was in the Russian crosshairs, I was in the Serb crosshairs. I was in the crosshairs of a lot of people in the Pentagon who didn't want to get involved ...

John Roberts: But his point is ...

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: My point is, we won!

John Roberts: His point is he's surprised you're talking ...

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And I was the leader of that operation.

John Roberts: about a fellow servicemember like that.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: No, his point was my record wasn't very good. So that's the first point I want to answer. As far as talking about a fellow servicemember, I've never said anything to dishonor John McCain. Look, John McCain came to my house for dinner when I was the commander in Panama. I've been to conferences with him, I've testified before him and I like him. It's ...but, but I will say this, that when it comes to being the President of the United States, it's about judgment and I've seen stronger judgment from Barack Obama despite the fact that he doesn't have military experience than I've seen from John McCain despite all his worldly travels, his Senate Armed Service serviceship and what he did as an outstanding younger officer in uniform for the United States Navy. And to me

John Roberts: General,

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: this is about ...and I hope the American people will make the decision based on judgment.

John Roberts: General, we're out of time unfortunately, but we do thank you for yours. It's good to connect with you again.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: John thank you. Thank you very much for the opportunity to be on with you.

John Roberts: Thanks General.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you.