Dan Abrams: Hi everyone. Welcome to the show. Bill Clinton reportedly still fuming over Team Obama portraying him as a racist during the Democratic Primary. And a Republican Senator up for re-election now playing up his relationship, not with John McCain, but with Barack Obama in a new TV ad. As always, we're on their trail making the call on who won and lost another heated day out on the trail.
First up, Bill Clinton reportedly now wants some private time to air his grievances to Barack Obama directly. Yesterday Clinton offered up that tepid, one-sentence endorsement of Obama through his spokesperson? Today we may know why. The Atlantic reporting a source told them Clinton is, quote, "miffed at Obama for two reasons. First, he feels Obama's candidacy was essentially an anti-Clinton candidacy, that Obama ran against Clinton's Presidential record, implying it was time-worn, divisive and damaging. And Second, Clinton is convinced the Obama campaign went out of its way to portray him as a racist." Obama's slated to appear with Hillary Clinton on Friday and used that to put a positive spin on the former President's rather unenthusiastic endorsement.
Barack Obama (on tape): It's understandable that the former President wouldn't want to upstage what is going to be I think a terrific unity event over the next day and a half. Now, if the question is, do I want Bill Cl-Clinton campaigning for us for the ticket leading into November, the answer is absolutely yes.
Dan Abrams: Not sure that was the question. But the question now is this a win, lose or draw for Obama. Joining us now, retired General Wesley Clark, who had been a Clinton supporter; Lynn Sweet, Washington Bureau Chief from the Chicago Sun Times; and MSNBC political analyst and Republican strategist Joe Watkins. Alright, Lynn is our, is our reporter on the panel. Is this a, a lose for Obama?
Lynn Sweet: Short-term loss. He needs to get things straight with Senator Clinton's husband, and he needs to- if, if it takes a meeting, I'm sure he'll have the meeting. Look-it, Dan, he's been wearing a flag pin and he's drinking beer. A meeting is the least of his hurdles to the White House.
Dan Abrams: Alright, General Clark, look you know the Clintons. Do you expect that that's going to happen, that Obama's going to sit down with Bill Clinton one-on-one?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I certainly do, and I think that this is all part of the process of bringing the Party back together. So, I think, you know, we've got to be a little bit patient here. People had deep feelings. People were committed. People are pretty tired after the campaign. And it will come together.
Dan Abrams: But I've got to believe, for a guy like Joe Watkins, this is just red meat.
Joe Watkins: (laughs)
Dan Abrams: Isn't it, Joe. Seeing-
Joe Watkins: No. (laughs harder)
Dan Abrams: Seeing Bill Clinton and, and Barack Obama at arms length.
Joe Watkins: (still laughing) Well, you got to face it, Dan, I mean, Barack Obama's been dancing all over Bill Clinton's legacy. I mean, Clinton is the guy who fashioned himself as America's first black President, and after those South Carolina comments of course, that came to a very abrupt halt. And Barack Odama's (sic) done, Barack Obama's done a great job of winning the support of African Americans around the country, and I think maybe Bill Clinton's a little bit jealous. But, but Barack Obama does - and this is the reason why I agree with Lynn that it's a short-term loss for him - Barack Obama needs those 18 million votes that Hillary won during the primaries. So, he's got to cozy up to Clinton a little bit and mend fences.
Dan Abrams: General Clark, I was surprised at how tepid the, the endorsement was from Bill Clinton. I mean, this, this all makes sense, this Atlantic report, you know, the fact that, that Clinton's quote, "endorsement" of Barack Obama comes from a spokesperson saying, "President Clinton's obviously committed to doing whatever he can and is asked to do to ensure Senator Obama's the next President of the United States." I mean, that couldn't be-
Joe Watkins: (laughs)
Dan Abrams: -colder.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Come on, Dan, let's give him a break here.
Joe Watkins: (laughs)
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: First of all, Bill Clinton wasn't running for President. He wasn't the candidate.
Dan Abrams: But he's a leader of the Democratic Party.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: There's a meeting tomorrow night in Washington. The Clinton fundraisers are meeting with Barack. There's an event on Friday. And one thing that Bill Clinton did learn during the campaign is not to upstage his wife. So, he's not upstaging anybody.
Dan Abrams: Yeah.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And I think the, I think these groups are going to come together in the Democratic Party, and I think this is part-
Dan Abrams: Well-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -of a process.
Dan Abrams: I think they'll come together too, but Lynn - real quick, I got to move on - but do you believe that this is about upstaging Hillary Clinton?
Lynn Sweet: Well, he's also in, in, in London meeting Nelson Mandela. The most important thing is before they have mee- un- Unity, New Hampshire, Obama meets Clinton's big donors tomorrow night in Washington. That's probably in the short term more important than whether or not Bill Clinton-
Dan Abrams: Yeah.
Lynn Sweet: -i- issues an endorsement with a big splash.
Dan Abrams: Alright look, I'm going to call this a - I think you're right - short-term lose for Obama. I think any c- conflict with the Clintons at this point isn't necessary for him. Next up, in a sign of just how bad a year it may be for Republicans, Republican Senator, Republican Senator Gordon Smith is running a new TV as in his re-election bid touting his relationship, not with John McCain, not with President Bush, but with Barack Obama.
Gordon ad (on tape):
Who says Gordon Smith helped lead the fight for better gas mileage and a cleaner environment? Barack Obama. He joined with Gordon and broke through a 20-year deadlock to pass new laws which increased gas mileage for automobiles. Gordon Smith - bipartisan leadership for energy independence.
Gordon Smith: I'm Gordon Smith and I approve working together across party lines.
(end ad)
Dan Abrams: (laughs) Team Obama responded with a thanks-but-no-thanks statement. Quote, "Barack Obama has a long record of bipartisan accomplishment. We appreciate that it's respected by his Democratic and Republican colleagues in the Senate, but in this race Oregonians should know that Barack Obama supports Democrat Jeff Merkley for Senate. I mean, Joe, as a Republican you've got to look at that ad and you've got to say to yourself-
Joe Watkins: (laughs)
Dan Abrams: -'Whoa! Things are pretty bad.'
Joe Watkins: Gordon, Gordon, I've got to tell you, Barack Obama is not your friend.
Dan Abrams: (laughs)
Joe Watkins: You know, th-this is a, this is a loss for Gordon. I mean, more than anybody else.
Dan Abrams: (laughins) Oh, come on.
Joe Watkins: Because you've got to realize-
Lynn Sweet: It's a loss for McCain, come on.
Dan Abrams: Yeah.
Joe Watkins: No, no, no, it, it' it's a wash for McCain, I think, because McCain has done really well in the bipartisan thing as well. I mean, he's teamed up with Teddy Kennedy. He's teamed up with, with-
Dan Abrams: How many, how many Democrats-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Big loss for McCain.
Dan Abrams: How many Democrats has McCain endorsed in this- recently, Joe?
Joe Watkins: Well, not recently.
Dan Abrams: No, of cour- yeah.
Joe Watkins: Of course not. I mean zero recently, but he's done the bipartisan thing in the past. But you know, you got to remember that this is a political campaign. Barack Obama's a politician, and if you're a Republican, you got to stick with Republicans in order to win.
Dan Abrams: Yeah, well, it doesn't seem-
Lynn Sweet: If you're worried about coat- I'm sorry. The-the- Here's the point here. If Obama's coattails are so strong in Oregon - he got that massive multiple-thousand, tens of thousands of people ou-out there before the primary - if Gordon Smith has to have worry that he's working, working on Obama's coattails, I think that's a message that's going to-
Dan Abrams: ye-
Lynn Sweet: -resonate-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I th- I-
Lynn Sweet: -to McCain's disadvantage.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think it is.
Dan Abrams: General, General Clark.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Look, there is no enthusiasm evident in the Republican Party for John McCain, and that's-
Joe Watkins: No, that's that's-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: what this clearly shows.
Joe Watkins: That's not true. That's not true. That's not true. I mean, i-in certain instances you have people who are pulling away from the Republican nominee apparent, but-
Dan Abrams: But this is-
Joe Watkins: -that's not true. There's a lot of enthusiasm for John McCain among Republicans.
Dan Abrams: But this isn't amazing.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: You know, I don't see it.
Joe Watkins: Republicans, and also with Independents.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I don't know. Y-you say you see it. I don't see it. What I see is people going through their duty. They're-
Joe Watkins: I don't think so.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -loyal.
Joe Watkins: I don't think so.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But I don't see the fervent crowds. He doesn't have near the magnetism and the charisma that he had in the 1999 period in New Hampshire. He's not The Straight Talk-
Joe Watkins: I think he does.
Dan Abrams: But wait-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -Express. He's a guy-
Joe Watkins: I think he does.
Dan Abrams: But this-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -who's toed the Bush Party line.
Joe Watkins: I disagree, General.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Again and again, he's wavered, he's quibbled-
Joe Watkins: General, with all due respect, I disagree.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: He's wabbled.
Dan Abrams: Hang on, hang on, hang on. One at a time. Let me Gen- Let, let General Clark finish his thought and then I'll ask you a question, Joe. Go ahead, General.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Just, you know, John McCain is no longer The Straight Talk Express. It's just a guy who, who want to be a Republican Presidential Candidate, and-
Dan Abrams: Well, let's come, let's come back to this.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -signed on to the Bush line-
Joe Watkins: Wait, wait, wait.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -and that's what he represents.
Joe Watkins: Dan ask me a question about public financing.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And there's no enthusiasm for it-
Dan Abrams: Wait, everyone, please. I want-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -in the country.
Dan Abrams: Alright. I want- I- I- I want to come back to this though. I mean, we can talk broadly or we can talk specifically. And I want to talk specifically about the fact that there's a Republican in the State of Oregon who's putting Barack Obama in his commercials. And I, I want to just get this down pat with Joe. Joe, you just got to accept that that is a bad sign. Right?
Joe Watkins: That, that, that's bad.
Dan Abrams: Yeah. Okay.
Joe Watkins: In the State of Oregon that's bad. I would not want to see that happen again and again and again.
Dan Abrams: Okay. Alright. Fair enough. Alright. So, let's c- I going to then say this goes down as a lose for John McCain.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Absolutely.
Dan Abrams: I don't think anyone's going to disagree. Next up, is John McCain suggesting a draft could be coming if he's elected?
(On Tape)
Questioner: What would be an action that would call for a draft?
John McCain: I don't know what would make a draft happen except perhaps if we were in an all-out World War III.
(end tape)
Dan Abrams: The problem two years ago when asked if he agreed with Newt Gingrich that we're in the early stages of a Third World War, McCain said, quote, "I do to some extent. We have terrorist organizations who are dangerous by themselves and are now being supported by radical Islamic governments." So, is this World War III as far as McCain is concerned? More importantly, could this be a big political liability for McCain? General?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well first of all, I don't foresee any circumstances that would require a return to the draft. Secondly, the fact that John McCain couldn't say that indicates he either has weird random thoughts or maybe he's secretly contemplating there is a return to the draft. I'm nervous about the World War III thing. Everybody understands that, that, that there's a threat from terrorism, but this is not World War III. This is a threat-
Joe Watkins: He didn't say that it was.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -America can manage. No he didn't.
Joe Watkins: He said only if there was all-out- Only if there was all out-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: He didn't say this year. He tended to agree with Newt Gingrich in 2006. He's part of that whole crowd. There's nothing the Republicans love more than a threat to scare Americans with.
Joe Watkins: I don't think so.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: And John McCain's part of that crowd.
Dan Abrams: But let me ask you, Joe - I mean, and Lynn I'm going to let you get in on this - but we have a quote here from John McCain in September of 2007 talking about the possibility of a draft. He said, "I might consider it. I don't think it's necessary, but I might consider it if you could design a draft where everybody equally would serve. But it just doesn't happen." You know, it does sound like, Joe, that, that this is at least on the table for McCain. And so, I ask you, I mean, let's, let's e- let's even assume that it's unlikely, is the fact that McCain is leaving this on the table bad for him?
Joe Watkins: No, I don't think so. I mean, who has more credibility than an American hero like John McCain-
Dan Abrams: Wesley Clark.
Joe Watkins: -who put his life on the line, who put his life on the line and spend five years in a prisoner of war camp for America, who's father did the- who's father, who's father served and his grandfather served? John McCain is saying that only in the event of an all-out World War III, and he doesn't see that happening, but only in the event of an all-out World War III might there be a need for a draft.
Dan Abrams: Yeah.
Joe Watkins: Now remember in the last Congress a Democrat, Charles Rangel, was the one that proposed a draft legislation.
Dan Abrams: Well-
Joe Watkins: And it didn't get very much traction.
Dan Abrams: I- I got to- I want to let General Clark get back in there, because I mean-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, thank you.
Dan Abrams: -you know, you're one of the few people who can respond to the, to the comments about how heroic he was. Because look, th- there's very little civilians like myself can say apart from the fact that yes, he was heroic.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well look, I mean, everybody-
Dan Abrams: Yeah.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -I think all of us admire John McCain's heroism as a prisoner of war. He was heroic. That doesn't mean that he's necessarily well qualified or the best qualified to be the Commander in Chief. As I've said elsewhere, he's largely untested and untried in matters of national policy making. He's never been in the Executive Branch. He's never gr-
Joe Watkins: Neither has Barack Obama.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -given great strategic decisions. Barack Obama's not running on his claim. Barack Obama's running on the claim of judgement. McClain's (sic) running on experience.
Dan Abrams: Lynn Sweet-
Joe Watkins: That would be two years-
Dan Abrams: Hang on. Hang on.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But the honest truth is, he doesn't have it-
Lynn Sweet: Hey-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -and this kind of a statement about the draft underscores the fact he doesn't have the experience.
Dan Abrams: Lynn Sweet, final word on this.
Lynn Sweet: L- let me make the point here that aside from everything you gentlemen have said, Obama's demographic is young and young male. So, once you even say the word draft, I can't imagine how McCain can get back some of those young males who might not even sit down to listen to anything past that. This is a lose for McCain, because it puts something on the table that he can't take back.
Dan Abrams: Alright. I'm-
Joe Watkins: It's more straight talk.
Dan Abrams: I'm-
Joe Watkins: More straight talk.
Dan Abrams: I'm (chuckles) Yeah. I'm going to give, I'm going to call this one a draw. I- I don't think that it- I-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: A draw?
Dan Abrams: I don't think it's going-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Come on, Dan.
Dan Abrams: You think it's a-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Dan, Dan, It's a clear loss for John McCain!
(cross talk)
Dan Abrams: General Clark, wait, wait, wait.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It's a clear loss.
Dan Abrams: General Clark, you're the one who said to me a moment ago the drafts not going to happen. You're the one who started the conversation by saying, 'It's not going to happen.' That's what-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: That's what I said.
Dan Abrams: That can't-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I can't- said I can't foresee-
Dan Abrams: Right.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -any circumstances.
Dan Abrams: But that-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: But when John McCain starts toying with the idea-
Dan Abrams: Okay.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -of a draft, he says this, that's a clear loss-
Dan Abrams: That's a-
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: -for John McCain.
Dan Abrams: The reason I gave it a draw was because I agree with you that I don't think there's a chance it's going to happen, and as a result I don't think it becomes a significant political issue.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I learned the hard way that when you're running for office, if you say things that are and hypothecate about things that aren't going to happen, normally you got your foot in your mouth. This is a loss for John McCain.
Dan Abrams: Okay.
Joe Watkins: I disagree.
Dan Abrams: Alright. At least on my scoreboard, I'm going to say it's a loss for Obama, a loss for McCain and one draw today on the final, the, the final scorecard here. I want to go real quick in terms of the, the full day on the campaign trail, Wesley Clark, who won the day?
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think Barack Obama won the day.
Dan Abrams: Lynn Sweet?
Lynn Sweet: Obama had a good briefing today from his Chief of Staff about what a strong position he has in the states. So, I'd put Obama.
Dan Abrams: Joe Watkins?
Joe Watkins: I say it's a draw today. I think that it was a good day for both candidates.
Dan Abrams: I- I say it's a draw. I think this Bill Clinton-Obama thing has to be resolved quickly.
Joe Watkins: Absolutely.
Dan Abrams: I think this is a big potential issue for the Obama campaign.
Lynn Sweet: And it will be.
Dan Abrams: Thanks to General Clark. Lynn Sweet, thanks a lot. Appreciate it, and Joe Watkins.
GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thanks, Dan.