General Wesley Clark on MSNBC (segment 1)
November 12, 2007 1:45 PM
transcript by Reg NYC

Kris: Congress is putting the finishing touches on this year's Defense Spending Bill. 8.7 billion dollars will be going to high tech missile defense systems. So, why spend so much cash on conventional weapons while fighting an unconventional war on terror? That's the question for MSNBC military analysts retired Four-Star General Wesley Clark and retired U.S. Army Colonel Jack Jacobs. General Clark let me start with you.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Mm hm.

Kris: Why this renewed focus on these missile defense systems?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, it's not renewed. I mean, we've been focusing for a decade or more on high-altitude air defense, on intercepting missiles in flight. The question was: How high can you intercept them and how long a range missile can you intercept, because the longer range they are the faster they are? So, you have to have better technology. The technology's getting better, and the first systems are being deployed now, and there's discussion of a system of deployment in Europe. So, I think this is part of prudent defense planning. It's gone on for a long time, started in the Clinton administration. It's still moving forward.

Kris: Russia, of course, protested the U.S. plan to install missile defense systems in Eastern Europe. So, putting this cash behind it yet again, a very strong message being sent, you think?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I think it's an opportunity to keep the, the technology moving forward. Congress is, has, has expressed it's reservations about the actual deployments in Europe. That's another specific authorization that would have to go through apart from the money for these programs.

Kris: The fact, Colonel, that Congress is actually authorizing more money, more cash for missile defense than even the President asked for, what does it tell us?

Col. Jack Jacobs: Well, this is an election year. We're going through an election cycle, and it was Tip O'Neil who once said that all politics is local. There's a local component of this. Don't forget that the money to build these things has to be spent somewhere. They're going to be spent in various places around the United States, and we should not ignore the fact that that has, that is one component of this decision.

Kris: What do you make of the decision overall, and, and, you just heard the General say that this is not a new focus at all on these missile defense systems. There are plenty of questions about the reliability of them. Is it worth spending the money?

Col. Jack Jacobs: Well, it's always worth spending the money because we can always print it. But one of the interesting things is that we're getting the money, we're getting the money from people who lend it to us, and that includes places like China. We've also seemed to decide that we're going to ignore what Russia's complaining about, and the fact of the matter is that Russia's getting more and more vituperative, not only about this but about our expansion and NATO's expansion, our expansion into Europe generally speaking. I think they're very much concerned about how much influence we're going to have in Europe going forward and they don't like it.

Kris: So, we're burrowing money from China?

Col. Jack Jacobs: Well, of course. China, China is one of the countries that holds among the largest amount of the, of our, of our debt. So, effectively we're borrowing money from China and other places. You see the weakness of the dollar around the world. That will continue. It's going to be more and more expensive, more difficult to do, spend money on these expensive programs going forward. It's going to be tougher and tougher to do what General Clark is suggesting we need to do. Maybe that's one of the reasons why we're spending the money now.

Kris: Would you agree with that, that it's going to get tougher and tougher, General?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Oh, I think it is. I, you know, these programs start small and they're like a wedge and they get more and more expensive as you go through. But jack is exactly right. We're borrowing the money for the Defense budget. That's essentially the gap in our foreign exchanges and other nations take U.S. dollars and they talk our, they take our credit, and, and, and we're doing these on, on loan basically. And there's no one else in the free world in the West who's investing in this kind of technology. So, our allies look at us for this, and then we'll have to see whether we deploy it or not. But I do think it's important, even though we're fighting an unconventional war, that you keep technology moving forward. There are also a lot of civilian spin-offs on some of this technology.

Kris: Well, let me ask you each - and I'll give you all of ten seconds each - we said Congress is putting the finishing touches on this Defense bill. Where should they be putting the money that you hear they're not, Jack?

Col. Jack Jacobs: Well, we're not spending money, I think, on the expansion of our capability to fight unconventional war. We're going to have to be able to fight both kinds of wars - conventional and unconventional. I don't think we're spending enough money on the later.

Kris: General, how about you?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Got to take care of space. Space is the high ground. We saw the Chinese shoot down a satellite last year, one of their old ones. We've taken the idea that space is neutral, but it isn't. And it's- our assets up there are very important to us, and they are to some degree or could at some point be at risk. Got to look after that.

Kris: Good to see you both. Didn't you guys work together?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: We did.

Col. Jack Jacobs: About 4,000 years ago.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: (laughs)

Col Jack Jacobs: But it looks better on General Clark-

Kris: HA, HA!

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: (laughs)

Col Jack Jacobs: -than it does on me.

Kris: I'd say it looks great on both of you. Thank you, gentlemen.

Col. Jack Jacobs: You're welcome.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you.

Kris: It's always a pleasure.